« What are we selling? | Main | a creative day... »

October 06, 2008

Comments

Luke Renner

Great thoughts. Ironically, where poverty increases, so too do other forms of injustice. Abortion excluded, human rights violations are RAMPANT throughout the third world. In fact, some have said that injustice is the underdeveloped world's greatest natural resource.

The fact is... you can slap laws that tell people what they SHOULD DO as much as you want. But as always, it falls on the people to DO WHAT THEY SHOULD DO.

We should all be caring for the poor. If that means feeding them, okay. If it means offering them ways to raise their children, okay. The point is... women don't TYPICALLY have abortions for the reason of "inconvenience". Some? Sure. But most of the time, it is an act of desperation; a decision made with great difficulty as the result of a lack of options.

There are no better alternatives than people helping people.

A law won't force your hand. You speed, don't you? Laws really only assign a public decree of "social acceptability" that is backed by some institutional discipline.

Drugs, abortions, prostitution, pornography, theft... these things most-often prevail when better solutions fade away.

If we provide love and resources... all of those crimes stand a lesser chance at survival. There will always be some who commit such acts despite their abundant provisions. But for most, there are simply far too few options on the table.

Be an option!

Rick

Why don't we legalize the murder of misbehaving teenagers, then start a government program to help reduce the number of misbehaving teenagers? Because murder is wrong.

If it's a baby in there, abortion is murder. If it's not a baby in there, why try to reduce the number of them that are killed? Go ahead and kill "it" if it's not a baby.

Eli

Well, Rick, an argument can be made that the people who write the laws and the people who vote for those people aren't the culpable parties anyway. There's only so much morality you can legislate before it becomes silly or scary.

It is currently legal in the US to believe in someone other than Jesus, or no one at all, yet Christians don't have a problem with this - even though they think that not following Jesus will result in eternal damnation - a fate which would reportedly make a man wish he'd been aborted. Should we also make it illegal not to believe?

No, instead we accept the fact that in light of the government not coming to the aid of the Kingdom, we can work to expand it ourselves through love.

There are two choices before us: Illegalize it and sleep soundly knowing that we are right and they are wrong, ignoring the fact that overturning Roe v. Wade simply turns it back to the states, 14-16 of which will never criminalize it. -or- Look to reduce the numbers of abortions (save babies), in spite of the law.

mrs beezer

I don't expect to sway your opinion on Obama, as I see you are quite taken with the candidate (condescention of my own). However, I hope that you vote with your eyes open. I read your facts on abortion link, which is straight from Obama's website. I also researched the Guttmacher Institute, the lobbying arm of Planned Parenthood, hardly an unbiased group. I don't accept your premise that abortion is set in cement and not going anywhere, so was Dred Scott at one time. In the Illinois legislature, Obama voted against the "born-alive" act, providing life saving measures for babies who survive abortion. NARAL has give Obama a 100% voting record the entire time he has been in the Senate. It has been a long battle, fighting against abortion, with no end in sight. I will grant you that. But I could not in good conscience vote for someone so decidedly promoting abortion as Obama has, regardless of his rhetoric.

mrs beezer

Regarding the democrats 95/10 initiative, Obama didn't even show up for the critical SCHIP vote. But, that isn't even the point. You and I don't even operate on the same playing field. I don't look to government to be the be all, end all of all of society's problems. Government will not end abortion, or poverty, or any other ills of society. Government's job is to legislate righteous laws, and protect the least among us. The church should be stepping up to feed the poor, help the pregnant woman, and assist those in need. If your church isn't doing that, then why not? If your family isn't involved, then why not? To pull the lever on one party and think that that is enough, doesn't cut it. The culture has to change, life has to become valuable and precious. Juno and Bella were 2 examples of movies that went against the tide. You are creative and your blog influences more people than you may ever know, as does your music. Do not take your gifts lightly, nor your influence.

well said. My influence, for what it's worth, is the reason I wrote the post in the first place. Injustice in any form ought to be fought, but not every tactic is effective. To have an issue like abortion be the main issue that swings the outcome of an election with much farther reaching consequences is to fall for sleight of hand. The conventional wisdom that "this party is pro-life and that party is pro-death" is old and way too simple. It's exactly what CBN, FotF, and Fox News want us to think.

I am offering an alternative point of view. No one has a monopoly on truth. One of those links was from Obama's website. There are things on that site from PP. The 'facts' there are spun just like everything else. It's wisdom to gather a multitude of counselors, not just the ones we like. But no one in the church near me is pointing any of it out. I saw the need to make the info available. We can all do with it what we will.

Rick

You wrote "Democrats are putting their money where their mouths are."

No, they're putting OUR money where their mouths are. Big difference.

Jen

Near the end of a town hall meeting in Johnstown, Pa., a woman arose to offer a passionate plea to Barack Obama to "stop these abortions."

Obama's response was cool, direct, unequivocal.

"Look, I got two daughters -- 9 years old and 6 years old. ... I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby."

(Source: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=28517.

For someone who would love nothing more then to find out she is expecting a child this comment sickens me. "punished with a baby"!! Are you kidding me??

Before Roe v. Wade it was much easier in the US to adopt a child. Why do you think that so many people have to go to other countries to adopt children today? I have a feeling it's because abortion has become the easy out for what Mr. Obama likes to call punishment.

As we pray daily (sometimes hourly) for the blessing of a child, it's unconscionable to think that someone - a father, no less, and one who calls himself a Christian - would have such a cavalier attitude toward one of God's greatest blessings.

Of course, I wasn't voting for Sen. Obama before - but this is the sort of thing I would think "on the fence" Christians would do well to consider.

Jen

Just to be clear.. the father I was referring to in the comment above "As we pray daily (sometimes hourly) for the blessing of a child, it's unconscionable to think that someone - a father, no less, and one who calls himself a Christian - would have such a cavalier attitude toward one of God's greatest blessings." Was in Mr. Obama and not you Paul..

Eli

I didn't take it that way, Jen. I know your struggle. I would have never said what he said. You know I love my kids, and I know you know.

Would he insist that his daughter get an abortion? Your guess is as good as mine. If he would, he would be going against the idea of a woman's "choice", wouldn't he?

I am still pro-life, and nothing about my post or my comments should be misconstrued that way. My kids are a blessing to me and to their mom(s) and grandparents.

I am sorry if offering the alternative idea that social support is as important as the legalization issue paints me with the same brush as Planned Parenthood. I can't get rid of that baggage, and I am not trying to. I am anti-abortion. I hate it. It is wrong. But I only have so much energy, and with that energy, I am looking for ways to make it less attractive to people. If we take away public assistance from girls in trouble, we are not helping them choose life. Adoption should be as easy everywhere in this country as it is in my state. Did you know that adopting a child in SC is as easy as passing the home study, and then the state pays YOU until the child turns 18? You don't get to pick a designer baby, but you can have a child whose parental rights have been terminated by the courts. Why isn't it this easy everywhere?

Jenny Brannies

WOW. I grew up in Church with you and am SHOCKED that you, Ray Renner's son, voted for Obama??
Seriously?

Jenny Brannies

Okay, I realize that came off horribly bitchy (not to mention judgemental) and I'm sorry.
I have had personal experience with abortion (not myself, my Mother aborted a baby when I was three) and I took this very personally.. I'm not sure why. I haven't been around you in years. I guess I was just very shocked by your views.. Knowing what I was taught in Church by your Dad.. Marching in Pro Life parades in Anderson with your Mom..
You are your own person and that is your opinion and I'm sorry for even posting.

On another note, I'm sorry about your marriage ending. I knew M growing up, she lived down the street from me as a kid.. I was a member of Excel for several years and saw her all the time.. My brother dated her sister. I'm not shocked.
I'm sorry you had to deal with that and good for you for taking care of your children on your own and finding love again.
Much happiness to you and your wife and I'm jealous you got out of Anderson...
I married and my husband moved from another State to HERE and oh is he regretting it. This place has turned into a dump, be glad you got out.

I'm going to find info on Luke soon. I heard that he had a ministry in Haiti. I went to Haiti with him in 1991 and have such a desire to go back.

Now I'm rambling. ANyway, just saying sorry for the earlier post.

Jenny (Carpenter-Nevins)

Jenny Brannies

Okay, I realize that came off horribly bitchy (not to mention judgemental) and I'm sorry.
I have had personal experience with abortion (not myself, my Mother aborted a baby when I was three) and I took this very personally.. I'm not sure why. I haven't been around you in years. I guess I was just very shocked by your views.. Knowing what I was taught in Church by your Dad.. Marching in Pro Life parades in Anderson with your Mom..
You are your own person and that is your opinion and I'm sorry for even posting.

On another note, I'm sorry about your marriage ending. I knew M growing up, she lived down the street from me as a kid.. I was a member of Excel for several years and saw her all the time.. My brother dated her sister. I'm not shocked.
I'm sorry you had to deal with that and good for you for taking care of your children on your own and finding love again.
Much happiness to you and your wife and I'm jealous you got out of Anderson...
I married and my husband moved from another State to HERE and oh is he regretting it. This place has turned into a dump, be glad you got out.

I'm going to find info on Luke soon. I heard that he had a ministry in Haiti. I went to Haiti with him in 1991 and have such a desire to go back.

Now I'm rambling. ANyway, just saying sorry for the earlier post.

Jenny (Carpenter-Nevins)

Eli

I didn't think you were being bitchy, Jenny, but I couldn't figure out who you were from your new last name.

And I think the point of my post was that it is sad to think that people would base their vote on that one issue, ignoring all the others.

How's the rest of your family?

Jenny Brannies

Okay, I'm going to keep my mouth shut but it's definitely not the only issue I was concerned about with him.

Oh, the family is fine.
Brian and Lisa (Lauderbaugh) have two girls, 5 & 9 yrs old and BJ got married last year to a girl from his Church. They are both on the praise & worship team at Life Bridge Church in Fort Wayne.
My step Dad is retired and Mom works FT doing interior design/furniture sales.

Remember Carli Miller? Well, we are still best friends.

Anyway, I'm very happy that you found someone after all you went through.. She sounds like a winner.
God Bless :)

The comments to this entry are closed.